Piracy Discussion

Just had a discussion with some other people on a different Discord server about pirating. Apparently going to the movies for free is very similar to pirating media. I'm posting the (more or less) full chat here because it might be useful later... If anyone has anything to add on the subject, please feel free to chime in.

[2:49 PM] Morkney: imagine a movie is only showing in a cinema that you can't get to

[2:50 PM] Morkney: so you get a friend to record the movie on a camcorder or something

[2:50 PM] Morkney: it's basically the same thing

[2:51 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: ^

[2:51 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: No one's making money off it, so I think it's ok

[2:52 PM] Morkney: well you didn't pay to see the movie

[2:52 PM] Morkney: it's as if the fact you can't see it means you're entitled to it for free

[2:53 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: My only problem with that analogy is that it's against the rules at cinemas to record stuff

[2:53 PM] Morkney: isn't it against the 'rules' to pirate stuff

[2:53 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: It's against the law, more or less

[2:54 PM] Morkney: so you value cinema rules above the law?

[2:54 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: No, I just don't value pirating laws above cinema rules

[2:54 PM] Morkney: it's the same thing

[2:56 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: Time is money and all that - I'm not going to greatly incovenience myself so that I don't break a law, unless the monetary risk is higher than the time risk

[2:56 PM] Morkney: wat?

[2:56 PM] Morkney: how is not watching some TV show greatly inconveniencing you?

[2:56 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: Ok, first, let's say I want to watch the show

[2:57 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: I either have to get myself to some super far away location (which will take time to travel too, and cost me money), or I can watch it at home while maybe breaking a law

[2:57 PM] Morkney: Used to know somebody who would shoplift if they thought the item was too expensive

[2:57 PM] Morkney: they used the same logic to justify it

[2:58 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: But there's a net negative money gain from someone with that

[2:58 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: (The shop is losing money)

[2:58 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: With digital media the loss of revenue is basically non-existent

[2:59 PM] Morkney: idk piracy costs the creative industries greatly

[3:00 PM] Tommyfoxy2: Digital media isn't like shop lifting in comparison. Shop lifting the stuff is already bought by the store, when it's stolen that is effectively lost money.



Digital Media they don't loose money, its just lost potential money. But there's no guarantee that people would've bought it more anyways if it couldn't have been pirated.

[3:00 PM] Morkney: you could just argue with shoplifting that the food you stole would have gone out of date and nobody would have bought all the food anyway

[3:00 PM] Morkney: often the stuff in shops is not already bought

[3:00 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: Tommy understands

[3:00 PM] Morkney: they just host the produce

[3:03 PM] Morkney: you could argue the same thing about sneaking into cinemas to watch a film

[3:03 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: Ok, let's boil it down then. What's the cost of manufacturing a phone? Let's say about 500$ for an iPhone, or something for all the components and fancy silicon chips. What's the cost of manufacturing a TV show? Let's say about 0$ because all you have to do is send a digital copy stored on a server to someone

[3:03 PM] Morkney: the cinema hasn't lost anything physical, so it's fine, rite

[3:03 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: Cinemas are a service, they're a bit different. They don't sell a product, they sell an experience

[3:04 PM] Morkney: isn't that exactly what tv shows do

[3:04 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: Except with a tv show, you can watch it again, keep it wherever you want

[3:05 PM] Morkney: so?

[3:05 PM] Morkney: that's a difference, sure, but it's not one which really matters in this situation

[3:07 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: Ok, fine then back to the previous argument: There are no costs to recuperate with digital media. With a cinema you have to pay for a ticket so the cinema can afford to pay it's staff, bills, etc.(edited)

[3:08 PM] Morkney: they show the film no matter what

[3:08 PM] Morkney: whether there's a bum in a seat or not makes no difference

[3:09 PM] Morkney: if you're arguing the cinema is different because they have to pay to run the cinema, same applies to actually making the film

[3:09 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: Actually if there's a no demand they don't have showings for the movie at all

[3:09 PM] Morkney: well if you sneak into a room with no demand then obviously they won't be showing the movie so they won't lose money anyway

[3:09 PM] [DC][Hedgehogf]: morkey is correct no matter what the film plays

[3:10 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: Actually making a film, etc. falls into more of "development costs", sort of like building the cinema or planning how an iPhone is going to work, where everything is going to be inside of it

[3:10 PM] Morkney: there's no costs for having you sneak into the cinema to watch the film

[3:11 PM] Morkney: they lose nothing from you doing that

[3:11 PM] Morkney: unless you take a sledgehammer to their walls to get in or something

[3:11 PM] Tommyfoxy2: They loose potential revenue

[3:11 PM] Morkney: uhh... yea, just like with piracy?

[3:11 PM] Tommyfoxy2: yea

[3:11 PM] Morkney: also it's lose not loose

[3:11 PM] LoreWalkerCho: I don't know about you guys, but every time I enter a theater I use a sledgehammer to get in, whether or not I pay.

[3:12 PM] Morkney: yea it's my favourite way of announcing myself too

[3:12 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: lol ok

[3:12 PM] Tommyfoxy2: im more of a gentleman, i scream and yell my peoples battle cry as i enter

[3:12 PM] LoreWalkerCho: CRASH I HAVE ARRIVED

[3:12 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: So sneaking into cinema is basically like the physical version of piracy then(edited)

[3:12 PM] Morkney: yea, that's what I'm getting at

[3:12 PM] Morkney: but hopefully it's more obvious to see the moral issues

[3:13 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: As you outlined why it's morally fine to do it, but ok

[3:13 PM] Morkney: lol i think you took it the wrong way

[3:13 PM] Morkney: I do not think it is morally acceptable to do that

[3:13 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: The main reason why you shouldn't do it is because you'll get kicked out/charged with trespassing (idk if the latter is actually possible)

[3:14 PM] Morkney: that's not a moral reason though

[3:14 PM] Morkney: that's 'oh you might be punished'

[3:14 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: But piracy doesn't have that

[3:14 PM] Morkney: it does lol

[3:14 PM] Morkney: it's just virtually impossible to enforce

[3:14 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: The only other moral reason is because you're hurting them, but you're not because they're only loosing potential revenue

[3:14 PM] Morkney: losing! not loosing

[3:15 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: loooooooooooooooooooooooooosing

[3:15 PM] Tommyfoxy2: If a person pays for a ticket and records the movie with a camara is it still piracy

[3:15 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: I absolutely hate that word for the random amount of o's depending on tense

[3:15 PM] Morkney: yea that counts as piracy too

[3:15 PM] Morkney: but apparently he thinks that is bad because it breaks cinema rules

[3:15 PM] Morkney: shrugs

[3:15 PM] Morkney: lose always has 1 o

[3:16 PM] Tommyfoxy2: well it's not a case of thinking that it is, it is against most if not all cinima rules(edited)

[3:16 PM] [Court Jester] NGniusness: Oh wait it's choose I'm thinking of... or am I? Damn it now my English is messed up in my head

[3:16 PM] Tommyfoxy2: therefore it is bad(edited)

[3:16 PM] Morkney: the 'think' applies to the bad, not to the breaking of rules