14flash
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Post by 14flash on Sept 15, 2017 5:04:06 GMT
So that we can have more structured conversations, I'm starting to move some of the topics (especially ones which have traction or good ideas) from the docs folder to this thread. This one was suggested by Mike in his list of episode ideas they never had time for. So far there's been a lot of discussion about what usernames mean to various people and how usernames allow someone to step into a new persona (for good or perhaps for bad) and act without consequences to their real self. There seems to be some back in forth over whether this helps you remain anonymous versus known, and a new person versus same person. Link to the doc with ideas so far.
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ngnius
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Post by ngnius on Sept 15, 2017 12:31:19 GMT
I like it. Ironically, we're all discussing this on the internet with usernames/pseudonyms.
I feel like the fact that usernames are chosen, unlike names, should be expanded on more (it lets us emphasize what we want people to know, and completely hide what we want people not to know that could be known with a normal name).
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14flash
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Post by 14flash on Oct 4, 2017 13:51:09 GMT
This idea seems to be getting a lot of traction in the preliminary vote for second episode, so maybe we should start thinking about this some more? I personally like the idea that usernames go beyond making you anonymous and actually let you be a different person. (After all, on the internet nobody knows you're a horse lime.) In a way, this applies to pseudonyms as well. The Bronte Sisters, for example, took pseudonyms to appear to be male to publishers so that their works would be taken seriously. In the same way, I could probably create an online persona and pretend to be a French-Canadian psychology student and who's going to know otherwise?
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Post by heresanidea on Oct 4, 2017 14:35:00 GMT
Can we narrow down the scope to only internet? I mean faking identity isn't a new thing, even Aladdin and Jasmine do it.
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14flash
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Post by 14flash on Oct 5, 2017 4:05:14 GMT
Obviously we should talk about this in terms of usernames over the Internet, but I think it's important to relate these to pseudonyms which are prevalent in the real world.
I actually wonder if usernames are more likely used to fulfill some desire for privacy or security as opposed to anonymity or rebranding.
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ngnius
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Post by ngnius on Oct 6, 2017 14:31:29 GMT
I threw in some applications outside of the internet to the google doc. I don't think it's a good idea to only talk about one application of pseudonyms and usernames. Perhaps just comparing usernames with other types of pseudonyms is enough, but I fear that focusing exclusively on power Internet usernames will limit the depth of the topic (as well as potentially limit our YouTube subscriber audience, especially if this is chosen as our second video).
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Post by heresanidea on Oct 6, 2017 15:06:05 GMT
Ok faking identity primarily by using fake names, got it. We gotta mention Banksy at some point. Any other famous pseudonym having individuals or groups? There's also pen names. Also we can add that blade runner gif where he pretends to be a nerd. What else We can also talk about the uniqueness of usernames, unlike normal names. And something about how YouTube now allows different display name than your username. If anyone has read the eragon books, maybe we can make a reference to how even things have real names and how you gotta discover your real name, but we gotta find a strong relation with username in order to do that.. or how Voldemort in HP hides his real name much like we do online. Usernames, unlike most real names are also often very descriptive.. "PastaLovr123333" would generally have positive thoughts about pasta, which is something you can't judge based on their real name "Timmy". It gives agency to the person over their identity. Oh that's a good one maybe- our identity is largely shaped by our surroundings, what family you were born, what language you speak, what saint was your grandma's favourite, etc. Determines what you're referred to as for your whole life, and you mostly have no say over it. So much so that most people really don't even feel like changing their birth name even when they can, because it looks bad.
So there's definitely a lot of supporting material for this one.
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14flash
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Post by 14flash on Oct 12, 2017 3:46:10 GMT
So much so that most people really don't even feel like changing their birth name even when they can, because it looks bad. I think this topic is pretty interesting. Why is it stigmatized to change a birth name--which you have no say in--but using a pen name or username is acceptable? Maybe it has something to do with how a name change is "permanent" while a pseudonym simply "sits on top." Of course, I feel like that isn't always true. You probably have no idea who Eric Arthur Blair is, but might be familiar with George Orwell. I really like the Voldemort example because it's an example not just of a chosen name, but a carefully crafted name. Not only is it basically French for "flying death," it was designed to be constructed from the letters of his real name (and they changed his real name in the various translations of Harry Potter to keep this the case). It's basically just a more complex example of "PastaLovr123333."
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vinico
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Post by vinico on Oct 13, 2017 13:26:36 GMT
If anyone has read the eragon books, maybe we can make a reference to how even things have real names and how you gotta discover your real name, but we gotta find a strong relation with username in order to do that.. or how Voldemort in HP hides his real name much like we do online. While Eragon was also my first contact with that sort of thing naming magic is an older concept, and since Eragon is not that good we should probably go with one of the magic systems in Name of the Wind that works similarly and people are more likely to have heard of. On that note, we might want to at least mention Linguistic relativity (also known as Sapir–Whorf hypothesis), which holds that language influences thought. We could connect this idea with how giving a name to something is in some ways giving it more agenticity than it previously held, if only in our heads because we now have a handy individual tag to attach thoughts to. We care more for things with names than nameless things, which is why companies incentivize you to name stuff you buy from them (a stat I managed to find is that 80% of the roomba owners name them, also this). Bringing it back to usernames and pseudonyms I'd like to share my own experience with reddit usernames, which is something I had thought about for a bit. Out of privacy concerns I've got a couple of disposable usernames but I've grown attached to a couple of them, and weirdly enough they seem to have their own personalities in a odd sort of way. They are all expressions of my own personality, obviously, but by given a name to a specific one I've given it more thought-space in a way. Sometimes while browsing I feel like it'd "fit" more to reply using another account, so I'll switch. It's probably not the only reason but I also started smoking more weed after I started using the /u/sorryamhigh handler, I wonder if by calling himself "PastaLovr123333" Timmy actually is more cognisant of how much he loves pasta so he eats more of it? Heh. Something else I think we should probably mention is Pseudonyms in Drag Culture and while I don't know enough about it I'm willing to do some research if no one else is.
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Post by AlicePow on Oct 18, 2017 5:25:35 GMT
Ok, I have some thoughts about this since, as a trans woman, I use a different name than I was given by my parents and have had to have a number of conversations about what names mean and what it means to choose a new name, and why somebody might do that. I have a lot of thoughts I want to put together and share for this later because I have to go to sleep right after posting this.
Obviously, not all of this has to go into the episode, but it's worth thinking about.
But there's a stigma in a lot of media against choosing a new name. You can see it Tangled (otherwise one of my favorite films) with Flynn Rider's chosen title treated as a retreat from himself. Wildstyle in the Lego Movie apparently changes her name a lot which is meant to indicate a discomfort with herself. Otherwise, they're a villain like Voldemort.
Positive examples do exist in some works, too, but they're harder to find. Interestingly, the apostles change names when they go to follow Jesus in the bible, I think.
Also, stage names are worth thinking about too. Or why a one person band would have a name other than the single member's name.
In real life, people also might go by different names. Somebody named Robert might go by Bobby among friends, but Rob at the office.
I don't know much about drag, but I do have friends who do drag and I could talk to them and do further research into that if we want to bring that in.
And I think it's worth asking what a fake identity is, or rather what a real identity is. What does it mean to be a name as opposed to not being it? What is the division and intersection between a name and an identity?
I hope some of this makes sense. Like I said, not everything here needs to go in, but it's stuff to think about. I'll try to remember if I know any theoretical texts we could look at, too.
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Post by AlicePow on Oct 18, 2017 5:35:08 GMT
Oh, one more thing is this conversation from The West Wing! Bartlet, the president int he show, is talking to a pastor from the church he grew up in about whether he should stay an execution, and they have this exchange:
"FATHER CAVANAUGH No. No thanks. [pause] I don’t know how to address you. Would you prefer Jed or Mr. President?
BARTLET To be honest, I prefer Mr. President.
FATHER CAVANAUGH That’s fine.
BARTLET You understand why, right?
FATHER CAVANAUGH Do I need to know why?
BARTLET It’s not ego.
FATHER CAVANAUGH I didn’t think it was.
BARTLET There are certain decisions I have to make while I’m in this room. Do I send troops into harm’s way? Which fatal disease gets the most research money?
FATHER CAVANAUGH Sure.
BARTLET It’s helpful in those situations not to think of yourself as the man but as the office.
FATHER CAVANAUGH Then Mr. President it is."
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Post by pfbourassa on Oct 18, 2017 14:30:00 GMT
I would like to note the difference between pseudonymity and anonymity. That a pseudonym still has a continued presence, and the false identity can still be linked to itself, even if it can't be linked to the persons "true" identity. I'm thinking of Bitcoin here.
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14flash
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Post by 14flash on Oct 19, 2017 3:46:22 GMT
I mentioned earlier that pseudonyms could be a way to provide privacy or security and I think that security fits right in with your idea of Bitcoin. By having a consistent identity which is not you, you provide a façade which can interact with a service (or people) without providing links to personal information that you want to remain hidden. I know I grew up in a time when online security 101 was basically "Don't use your real name on the Internet," because simply not exposing your name makes it a lot harder for malicious actors to have their way. I actually think this principle might have been (at least partially) responsible for the original wave of unique, recognizable usernames that Mike alluded to when he mentioned this idea (which has started to fade overtime, I blame the face books).
If it wouldn't make you uncomfortable to share, I would be interested in hearing what topics came up in these discussions. I think personal experience is an excellent starting point into founding these kinds of ideas.
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Post by ketiao on Oct 19, 2017 6:25:21 GMT
Bringing it back to usernames and pseudonyms I'd like to share my own experience with reddit usernames, which is something I had thought about for a bit. Out of privacy concerns I've got a couple of disposable usernames but I've grown attached to a couple of them, and weirdly enough they seem to have their own personalities in a odd sort of way. They are all expressions of my own personality, obviously, but by given a name to a specific one I've given it more thought-space in a way. Sometimes while browsing I feel like it'd "fit" more to reply using another account, so I'll switch. It's probably not the only reason but I also started smoking more weed after I started using the /u/sorryamhigh handler, I wonder if by calling himself "PastaLovr123333" Timmy actually is more cognisant of how much he loves pasta so he eats more of it? Heh. Wanted to add another take on this. I have multiple reddit (etc.) usernames that I created as an attempt at self-branding, if that makes sense. One screenname would be my artist name/brand, another my gaming handle, and another for [insert topic/community here]. Basically, I was compartmentalizing myself assigning discrete interests to separate usernames. My personality wasn't different under the different names, I was just using each to share different things or interact with different communities. So, I might have a personal instagram, but a separate photography instagram so that people who follow for photography don't also get your photos of--I dunno. food, or something dumb. Think this is the same motivation for genre authors to use a pen name when they write something in another genre. Security is probably still a concern, but in this case it's more a separation of content. If you're known for gritty, gory, spacewar-y, hard scifi, and decide to write a whimsical children's book, you prob don't want readers to see your ~gritty space wars~ name on the cover and make assumptions based on it. See: Ed McBain, also probably plus a bunch of people who didn't want their main author name tied to erotica novels or etc. [aside; if our usernames do indeed influence our personalities, this one is making me emulate a little sea monster. I can only interpret this as an excellent development.]
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Post by AlicePow on Oct 19, 2017 6:39:16 GMT
I'd be happy to share a certain amount of my own experience. There has been a lot of discussion of how much the name I was given and used for 18 years is or is not me. I, of course, argue that a name is not a person. All names are, in a sense, titles or signs. "Alice" signifies me just as much as and, in my opinion, more than my deadname. Or at least, that's my interpretation of things. I have more and I'd be happy to talk on any questions or more about anything. Obviously, I have my limits of what I'd like to share, but I feel comfortable turning down a question if it crosses that, so have at it. I'm always down to bring my queer experiences to the table when applicable.
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